44949: -skimmer- - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 3:39 PM
Oh I see where this is going. He gave that nightmare control power over to Ciel.
Not sure he would fare better than Chernyl if he just straight up gave it to himself.
44950: Strannik - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 3:40 PM
Does that imply Noah wished to transfer himself the power to control the nightmare ?
Could he Have just wished that nightmarish power to disappear ?
44951: Feddlefew - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 4:00 PM
Wait. If the Hollowman is in Noah's head, does that mean Noah wished to give himself power over Chernyl's nightmares?
44952: Frozenstep - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 4:20 PM
Wait, so did Noah actually grant the Grey Child's wish? Or was the "I didn't have much of a choice" mean "It wasn't a good choice to give an unknown entity that power".
44953: Deliverance - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 4:42 PM
So now that we know what the Grey Child wanted Noah to wish for and have been given reason to believe that Noah did not comply, inquisitive readers want to know what he actually did wish for.
44954: Nomi - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 4:52 PM
Noah was pretty brave making that choice. Now, he just needs to survive the wrath of an irritated spirit.
44955: Whispers of Sorrow - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 5:05 PM
That may well have made an enemy, but it's hard to argue with his logic. And of course, the Grey Child din't promise *not* to kill him ten seconds thereafter, or indeed, shortly after a second wish was granted. So really, his decision not to grant/make that wish was assuredly correct.
But with everyone else involved having disappeared, Chernyl's power may already be under the control of someone, or indeed, something.
I'm not convinced this was ever about the nightmares mind. Something Vader said about dreams coming true: https://www.neorice.com/hoh_noah_1947
44956: Zed - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 6:23 PM
New storyline baddie! There's a zero percent chance ol' Grey will let Noah enjoy his new roommate Hallowman in peace.
44957: Violet - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 6:40 PM
Implying he wished for something else instead? Does HE have control of them now?
44958: AnonymousPerson - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 6:40 PM
Sooo, he didn't give the Grey Child control? Who did he give control? Chernyl? Himself? Noel?
44959: Tomtomy - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 6:44 PM
I wonder if this will bite him in the end? The grey child had more insight into the magic powers than hallowman, and there might be unforseen consequences to denying him access to Chenryl's powers. If so, then it's the grey child's fault for threatening instead of explaining why it would be necessary for it to have control.
44960: tracer - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 7:37 PM
"Inaliable"?
44961: Cellphone - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 9:39 PM
So... Due to English's lack of an full subjunctive mood, it's ambiguous whether Noah obeyed the Grey Child or not. Given that he *didn't* relay its hello, the fact that the Hollowman invading Noah's dreams seems to be a step short of "true control," Noah's little speech here, and my affection for Noah as a character I relate to totally biasing me, I think he must have made his own wish.
Though the obvious next question then is... What is the Grey Child? A nightmare? A spirit? Something else? And can it take revenge on Noah?
44962: tfernandesart - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 9:40 PM
I wonder what Noel would say about that...
And will we see mr.Malhart Piccarto again?
44963: Cellphone - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 9:42 PM
Oh, also- WHAT WAS NOAH'S WISH I KNOW IT'LL PROBABLY BE REVEALED TOMORROW, BUT I'M SO CURIOUS.
Like, if it was just for Chernyl to have control, how does that imprison the Hollowman - but no other nightmares - in Noah's mind?
44964: Kiithnaras - Saturday, December 7 2024 - 11:04 PM
Instead, he wished Chernyl to have full and thorough control over her own power, right?
Right??
44965: Baprr - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 12:00 AM
So did he make a wish to have that control himself then? Or did he wish for something else, like to banish them, or imprison them inside his mind?
44966: Gorzag - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 12:13 AM
I wondered in the Grey Child was a nightmare with omniscience, since Noel said that was possible. But here he seems not to be absolutely sure how Noah's power works. I wonder how he even knows about that power if it's not omniscience. Mind-reading maybe?
44967: ALandFarAway - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 12:21 AM
Methinks Noah might have made a mistake not giving the Grey Child control. What with the clowns and all.
44968: Ajonos - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 12:41 AM
I'm guessing from the wording on this page that he didn't give anyone "control", but rather something like "give the power to *seal away* the nightmares to me."
44969: Silver - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 1:11 AM
Clearly the empire's threats had the opposite effect they were going for on Noah.
44970: someone - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 1:13 AM
Given what Noah said to Chernyl last time, I believe his wish was for Chernyl's power to be permanently, definitively, completely, totally, and irremediably gone forever.
So there's nothing to control anyway.
44971: Whispers of Sorrow - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 4:35 AM
@someone: But if that's the case, why would one of Chernyl's nightmares be a prisoner in his dreamscape?
44972: someone - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 4:51 AM
@Whispers: It's possible Hallowman simply was powerful enough to no longer need Chernyl's power to sustain it. After all, it also deliberately let Nail strike it with a black crystal knife just to learn what it does, and that would destroy lesser spirits instantly, so...
Indeed, it's possible that getting inside Noah's dreamscape was how Hallowman survived at all. It's still unclear what happened to the rest of the nightmare spirits. Or the other survivors.
44973: Gorzag - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 5:56 AM
@someone: or maybe Noah gave Chernyl control of her own power, since he talked about giving her back her agency.
Also, the Grey Child seemed to be able to predict the future, since he predicted that Noah was going to need to create a shield one last time when falling... so maybe he also predicted this outcome?
44974: Syhkane - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 9:10 AM
I got a bizarre feeling the Grey Child might be *from* the future instead of seeing the future. Chernyl recognized Noah, someone he's never met before, but then he's bad with faces and names. It'd wild if there's time travel shenanigans in Noah's future and he ends up being the Grey Child.
I have no basis for any of this.
44976: Radical Dreamer - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 9:38 AM
Something to remember. Once manifested a nightmare does not disappear even if Charnyl's power is shut off. It's why Noel couldn't just make them all vanish. So disappearing her power doesn't solve things. Haven residents will probably find hidden nightmares for decades to come.
I agree with skimmer. Ciel likely is a gatekeeper for the power now. She doesn't sleep, never shows fear, and is analytical to a fault. It's a near perfect control for something driven by subconscious imagination.
Noah likely popped back into reality, a curious Hallowman approached, and Ciel promptly wrapped him up. The artificial darkness disappeared and all the nightmares that manifest fled to the sewers and indoors letting the survivors flee.
44977: TaranAlvein - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 9:47 AM
I think we're all overlooking the fact that the "Grey Child" could be Nail. In that case, it's not a mystery entity or another nightmare, but someone we've met, but don't have much insight into yet.
44978: Cromire - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 11:15 AM
I mean.
The most obvious solution would have been to...
Grey Child indeed got power over Nightmares. But as Noah talked about granting Cherny agency over her power...
Chernyl got control over whether the Nightmares can appear or not. Meaning that he fullfilled his deal and granted Grey Child the wish. While also making sure that without Chernyl's say so the Nightmares are safely locked inside of her mind.
Getting Hallowman locked inside of his own mind would have been just safety meassure since Hallowman was the only thing that would still wreck things.
44979: Feddlefew - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 11:24 AM
The Grey Child is (probably) a spirit because he has two horns. So far all spirits we've seen have two horns, and all ghouls (spirits possessing dead humans) have had one horn. So Nail is probably not a spirit unless he's like the unkillable "man" from the end of Burk's mage baron arch.
44980: soup - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 5:04 PM
@feddlefew i think infinite's spirit didn't have any horns when we saw it during the penalty game in tobi's story.
44981: Codfish - Sunday, December 8 2024 - 11:08 PM
What is so bad about giving The Grey Child “inaliable control of CheNryl’s power”?
Oh I see where this is going. He gave that nightmare control power over to Ciel.
Not sure he would fare better than Chernyl if he just straight up gave it to himself.
Does that imply Noah wished to transfer himself the power to control the nightmare ?
Could he Have just wished that nightmarish power to disappear ?
Wait. If the Hollowman is in Noah's head, does that mean Noah wished to give himself power over Chernyl's nightmares?
Wait, so did Noah actually grant the Grey Child's wish? Or was the "I didn't have much of a choice" mean "It wasn't a good choice to give an unknown entity that power".
So now that we know what the Grey Child wanted Noah to wish for and have been given reason to believe that Noah did not comply, inquisitive readers want to know what he actually did wish for.
Noah was pretty brave making that choice. Now, he just needs to survive the wrath of an irritated spirit.
That may well have made an enemy, but it's hard to argue with his logic. And of course, the Grey Child din't promise *not* to kill him ten seconds thereafter, or indeed, shortly after a second wish was granted. So really, his decision not to grant/make that wish was assuredly correct.
But with everyone else involved having disappeared, Chernyl's power may already be under the control of someone, or indeed, something.
I'm not convinced this was ever about the nightmares mind. Something Vader said about dreams coming true: https://www.neorice.com/hoh_noah_1947
New storyline baddie! There's a zero percent chance ol' Grey will let Noah enjoy his new roommate Hallowman in peace.
Implying he wished for something else instead? Does HE have control of them now?
Sooo, he didn't give the Grey Child control? Who did he give control? Chernyl? Himself? Noel?
I wonder if this will bite him in the end? The grey child had more insight into the magic powers than hallowman, and there might be unforseen consequences to denying him access to Chenryl's powers. If so, then it's the grey child's fault for threatening instead of explaining why it would be necessary for it to have control.
"Inaliable"?
So... Due to English's lack of an full subjunctive mood, it's ambiguous whether Noah obeyed the Grey Child or not. Given that he *didn't* relay its hello, the fact that the Hollowman invading Noah's dreams seems to be a step short of "true control," Noah's little speech here, and my affection for Noah as a character I relate to totally biasing me, I think he must have made his own wish.
Though the obvious next question then is... What is the Grey Child? A nightmare? A spirit? Something else? And can it take revenge on Noah?
I wonder what Noel would say about that...
And will we see mr.Malhart Piccarto again?
Oh, also- WHAT WAS NOAH'S WISH I KNOW IT'LL PROBABLY BE REVEALED TOMORROW, BUT I'M SO CURIOUS.
Like, if it was just for Chernyl to have control, how does that imprison the Hollowman - but no other nightmares - in Noah's mind?
Instead, he wished Chernyl to have full and thorough control over her own power, right?
Right??
So did he make a wish to have that control himself then? Or did he wish for something else, like to banish them, or imprison them inside his mind?
I wondered in the Grey Child was a nightmare with omniscience, since Noel said that was possible. But here he seems not to be absolutely sure how Noah's power works. I wonder how he even knows about that power if it's not omniscience. Mind-reading maybe?
Methinks Noah might have made a mistake not giving the Grey Child control. What with the clowns and all.
I'm guessing from the wording on this page that he didn't give anyone "control", but rather something like "give the power to *seal away* the nightmares to me."
Clearly the empire's threats had the opposite effect they were going for on Noah.
Given what Noah said to Chernyl last time, I believe his wish was for Chernyl's power to be permanently, definitively, completely, totally, and irremediably gone forever.
So there's nothing to control anyway.
@someone: But if that's the case, why would one of Chernyl's nightmares be a prisoner in his dreamscape?
@Whispers: It's possible Hallowman simply was powerful enough to no longer need Chernyl's power to sustain it. After all, it also deliberately let Nail strike it with a black crystal knife just to learn what it does, and that would destroy lesser spirits instantly, so...
Indeed, it's possible that getting inside Noah's dreamscape was how Hallowman survived at all. It's still unclear what happened to the rest of the nightmare spirits. Or the other survivors.
@someone: or maybe Noah gave Chernyl control of her own power, since he talked about giving her back her agency.
Also, the Grey Child seemed to be able to predict the future, since he predicted that Noah was going to need to create a shield one last time when falling... so maybe he also predicted this outcome?
I got a bizarre feeling the Grey Child might be *from* the future instead of seeing the future. Chernyl recognized Noah, someone he's never met before, but then he's bad with faces and names. It'd wild if there's time travel shenanigans in Noah's future and he ends up being the Grey Child.
I have no basis for any of this.
Something to remember. Once manifested a nightmare does not disappear even if Charnyl's power is shut off. It's why Noel couldn't just make them all vanish. So disappearing her power doesn't solve things. Haven residents will probably find hidden nightmares for decades to come.
I agree with skimmer. Ciel likely is a gatekeeper for the power now. She doesn't sleep, never shows fear, and is analytical to a fault. It's a near perfect control for something driven by subconscious imagination.
Noah likely popped back into reality, a curious Hallowman approached, and Ciel promptly wrapped him up. The artificial darkness disappeared and all the nightmares that manifest fled to the sewers and indoors letting the survivors flee.
I think we're all overlooking the fact that the "Grey Child" could be Nail. In that case, it's not a mystery entity or another nightmare, but someone we've met, but don't have much insight into yet.
I mean.
The most obvious solution would have been to...
Grey Child indeed got power over Nightmares. But as Noah talked about granting Cherny agency over her power...
Chernyl got control over whether the Nightmares can appear or not. Meaning that he fullfilled his deal and granted Grey Child the wish. While also making sure that without Chernyl's say so the Nightmares are safely locked inside of her mind.
Getting Hallowman locked inside of his own mind would have been just safety meassure since Hallowman was the only thing that would still wreck things.
The Grey Child is (probably) a spirit because he has two horns. So far all spirits we've seen have two horns, and all ghouls (spirits possessing dead humans) have had one horn. So Nail is probably not a spirit unless he's like the unkillable "man" from the end of Burk's mage baron arch.
@feddlefew i think infinite's spirit didn't have any horns when we saw it during the penalty game in tobi's story.
What is so bad about giving The Grey Child “inaliable control of CheNryl’s power”?