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Noah - 4025
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Neoriceisgood's avatar
Monday, November 25 2024 - 12:00 AM
By: Neoriceisgood

Failed again.

A familiar location.

44686: AnonymousPerson - Monday, November 25 2024 - 12:10 AM

Oh crap, now he's trapped in sleep like Chernyl was. And the only one who can help him is Ciel.

Wait... Hallowman has Ciel's bubbles... Did she do this?! Was that nightmare a double takeout?!

44687: Flangan - Monday, November 25 2024 - 12:13 AM

Train station again

44688: Whispers of Sorrow - Monday, November 25 2024 - 12:45 AM

So... the Clown, how did the Clown get involved in this?

Another question: Is Apu imprisoned here (and made an escape attempt) or invading from outside?

44689: Gobo - Monday, November 25 2024 - 12:52 AM

My read: Noah's wish--the Gray Child's wish--may have led to Chernyl being freed of her power in some way, but it's also led to Noah now being haunted by the imprisoned nightmares. Those blue bubbles kind of like like the Hallowman is chained up. He's haunting Noah's liminal spaces, trying to extract answers, and Ciel is trying to help Noah learn how to handle him.

This could be after a timeskip. It could also be immediately after leaving Chernyl's head.

Still can't explain the clown, though. I think he's a dreamhopper.

44690: Zyzyzyryxy - Monday, November 25 2024 - 12:55 AM

Let's stick to "yes/no" questions only, otherwise we won't understand any of this.

So is this whole nightmare arc engineered by Ciel in order to understand Noah and his power, for her own gains? And is she still tormenting Noah to get the answer she is looking for?

Was Noel right all the time, saying not to trust the spirits?

44691: Gobo - Monday, November 25 2024 - 1:28 AM

judging by the mention of "again", I think it's safe to say that this is post-timeskip. I also think it's pretty clear that Ciel is not causing this, but trying to help Noah resist it (or at least, if she is causing it, that's not something she's trying to be obvious about). she's trying to make the dream lucid, in a sense, although I don't know if this is a true dream, since he's at the train station.

The Hallowman has been haunting him ever since the nightmare ended, but is imprisoned enough by Ciel that his ability to torment Noah is limited.

44692: someone - Monday, November 25 2024 - 2:37 AM

Okay, this is starting to make more sense.

44693: Silver - Monday, November 25 2024 - 2:40 AM

I agree with Gobo. Noah must have somehow trapped the nightmare inside his... whatever that is.

44694: KsCoPe - Monday, November 25 2024 - 2:48 AM

So, Noah is a nightmare prison now?

44695: Baprr - Monday, November 25 2024 - 3:09 AM

@Zyzyzyryxy

No, no

Yes.

I believe that Noah's power would be better understood if we knew how exactly pandemonium powers worked, which we don't, but I think it's like this: spirits come from other worlds (or maybe it's one world but there are different kinds of spirits, or their transition between worlds changes them). They are bound by their own laws and natures, and vary in power and motivations wildly.

Those spirits that need physical bodies attach themselves to suitable individuals in hopes of later possessing the body and becoming a ghoul - this gives the individuals powers, the spirit remains alert to their circumstances, but it is bound and can't control the way its powers are used. (Infinite's spirit more or less confirmed all of this)

And then there are wandering spirits, which are drawn to large quantities of magic, they exist mostly as magic and can't easily affect the real world. They can interact with espers and some magic phenomena, but those are rare, so they treasure every opportunity they get. (Vonesperda and Hallowman have a lot in common if you think about it).

Noah's spirit is evidently capable of controlling itself and other spirits to a higher than usual degree, but its motivations are unclear. Ciel is just an avatar, a limited aspect of the actual spirit, and the "wishes" help it grow in power by taking something from others (since Noah has to "conquer" the minds of people whose minds he invades).

So I think Hallowman is just imprisoned within Noah's mind (the only place that was available to Ciel), and it's trying to get out - this is his break out attempt (probably not the first one, judging by "again"). We will no doubt meet Ciel in this arc, but it didn't give Noah nightmares on purpose - after all, Hallowman is probably capable of taking Noah over. Or maybe it did, hoping to make Noah use his power more.

Either way, no, this is Hallowman's fault, yes, probably shouldn't trust spirits.

44696: galeblaze - Monday, November 25 2024 - 3:14 AM

@zyzyzyryxy no. no. And more complex than that I think, I think that spirits have their own motivations, and can be trustworthy, but you have to keep in mind that they don't think the same as humans, and what they think will help you, might in fact harm you. I think you can trust the spirits but you have to understand that even when they wish to help you, that they do not fully understand your side, so be careful.

44697: Straightbackward - Monday, November 25 2024 - 3:42 AM

Well spotted, whomever said Halloman was chained/imprisoned.
My first impression was that it went through a portal into Noah's dream/mind-space, as if it were hunting Noah.
After a second look at the last pane, it truly seems like Noah chained The Halloman there. Congrats, you are Cheryl now!

I wonder if Neo went to think about The Halloman like some sort of virus/infection/parasite. It's latent on the mind of host until seemingly takes control of it and brings forth destruction. Now it seems Noah's got a very-very bad illness.

44698: Tom - Monday, November 25 2024 - 4:48 AM

Failed "again"?! How many times has Noah been over this, forgetting the last nightmare?

Last we checked, Noah spoke to a very messed up Ciel. Something went wrong there.

44699: Zyzyzyryxy - Monday, November 25 2024 - 7:00 AM

Thanks for all the comments, I think those ideas make quite a lot of sense.

I still cannot rule out completely another, very wild idea (but we saw quite a lot of wild things in this comic!). That speculation starts with the idea that Ciel is Hallowman all along. It manifesting as Ciel to Noah was the first crack in the prison walls. It then started manipulating Noah and others to break the prison (so was basically behind all Heaven arc events). Now either the plan didn't work as expected and Ciel / Hallowman is still trapped in Noah's mind (but probably is still closer to breaking out than before and might succeed shortly), or Noah didn't play along at the last moment and it is now his last stand.

44700: Radical Dreamer - Monday, November 25 2024 - 7:10 AM

@Baprr
That is a good summary of many of the same conclusions I've come to.

I think we are witnessing an interaction of 3 different forces. Noah's wish, the fact the Hollowman and Chernyl's abilities are nightmare related, and that island they jumped off of was the omen island revealed in Tobi's story.

44701: spiritfox - Monday, November 25 2024 - 7:33 AM

So assumption is Noah's wish took the nightmare monsters from Cherynl as part of stopping the hell that is being unleashed. But they're now stuck in his head as part of his monkey paw ability.

Noah's just asleep now and is getting fun visitations from his new friends cause they're pissed for obvious reasons.

The clown is obviously apart of Herolands white star clowns group but imo is bait for us readers.

44702: Chase - Monday, November 25 2024 - 8:17 AM

is noah in the subway? is that the familiar location?

44703: Baprr - Monday, November 25 2024 - 12:25 PM

@spiritfox, I wouldn't call it monkey's paw. The wishes work more or less straightforwardly if you use them carefully (like the first few did, Noah just didn't understand how they worked just yet). It's just, it was impossible to be careful when dealing with Hallowman. Noah was dealing with a fire the size of the city, no wonder he got a bit burned.

44704: Gobo - Monday, November 25 2024 - 1:25 PM

I'm wondering if Noah *only* took away the Hallowman. That still would be enough to end this. We're still figuring out what the Gray Child wants, but I think it's clear it's not a friendly being by its general. Attitude. And threatening to murder a child.

44726: Ghost - Tuesday, November 26 2024 - 5:51 PM

Mehh seems I forgot to put them 3 in. Anyway seems I'm not the only one to think ciel's horns be bigger. Salty Hallow is veeeery salty do wonder whats going on though been back in his mind station.


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