Man, both these kids have a good point for the way they feel, but also they're not great at arguing for it.

Comparing the out-of-control nature of their powers is ridiculous. Chernyl's power controls her more then anything, and will actively work to kill more innocent people. It's not nearly on the same level as accidently killing an opponent you're fighting, or hurting yourself.

That same problem makes being turned into a weapon a bigger deal. Gazz can disobey orders or indeed, kill himself if the empire ever tries to make himself kill innocents. Chernyl demonstrably does not make the choices, her power does.

And Noel...blaming Gazz for using lethal force? No matter how much you're being reassured and how gently an enemy is trying to do so, being captured and taken to a second location should be treated as an attempt on your life.

I wouldn't say Cherynl needs to die 100%, there's still plenty of unknown to consider, but Nail being around is definitely not a point I'd consider in her favor. If her power has already expanded greatly, who knows how much worse it could get with the empire specifically trying to make it worse?

Noel isn't collapsing in immense pain by walking into the portal, which is a good sign, but i still have doubts about how helpful this portal is going to be.

Ouch.

What you're hearing right now is the sound of Noel dropping the mic.

Chernyl losing control of herself: FIVE BILLION SATANS EVERYWHERE

Gaz 'losing control' of himself:
Slightly more vicious attempts to hit with a sword the people he wanted to hit with a sword to begin with.

Yeah that is... that is just a fantastic bit of perspective there Noel. wow is my mind expanding.

I... I think I might have to stop underestimating where Gazz falls when comparing relative strengths. Noel's points are both fair and distinctly unnerving, especially since he's noted Gazz's growth in power over an incredibly short time frame.
Also worth considering he has abilities that are honed efficiently by combat, and has only now gotten a chance to do so without oversight or moral issues.

What's a little emotional manipulation between friends!
Though yeah, despite the harsh words Noel's making the right call here in motive. Maybe not the right outcome though...

Gazz was in no way out of control in that fight. He responded with reasonable force in the face of somewhat unknown enemy combatants in an effort to protect his friends. There is no comparison between his reasonable actions and Chernyl's unconscious mass slaughter. I do agree that killing her is not a good option and should only be considered as a last resort. Malheart has proven there is a better sustainable solution.

I like the detail on how buff kittyman's kept his serious face on

@Soup
Wasn't he out of control? Most of the damage done to him was *by* him. Exerting yourself to such a degree trying to kill fleeing enemies that you hospitalize yourself is pretty damn out-of-comtrol. He *does* seem to be trying to kill at the end of that fight to me, but even if he weren't, the damage he carelessly inflicts on himself in the absence of tangible benefit is not what I'd call reasonable.

Not @ anyone.
Noel is absolutely being manipulative, but I think he's not wrong. He's accurately understood Gazz's spirit capabilities and Gazz's character, and has chosen an upsetting - but not misleading - framing of the truth as his weapon to manipulate Gazz.

Making the comparison to Chernyl is kind of begging the question; their basic disagreement is kind of utilitarian vs. deontological, and so Noel disregarding the difference of scale is likely unpersuasive, but I wouldn't call it inconsistent or off-the-mark of his point.

@Cellphone
...And he was inflicting that damage on himself and others in the name of saving people he cared about. And we're talking about magic stuff here, not regular physical combat. People can exhibit varying degrees of stamina when it comes to magic and we know he's pretty poor in that regard compared to some previous characters we've seen firsthand.

Anyone remember this Sunny guy and how he pitholed whole town? Well, now imagine Gazz at what level... snapping because someone threatened his best buddy's pet...

But at least nobody had time to felt any pain. We need mop, big mop...

Poor stamina? he is a kid performing house level destruction. Of course he gets winded.

And of course he seems in poor shape when you compare a kid to whats essentially olympian grade athletes.

Noel makes goods points. Should we kill someone because they can't control their powers?

@Tom
No, he doesn't. Gazz overextended, but his powers were not uncontrollable and in particular, never in control of the situation.

Chernyl is completely passive and her powers are doing everything.

Yeah this is some sweet emotional manipulation and lying. Chernyl is a world wide threat if let loose, Gaza is most definitely not. There’s a little bit of a difference between hitting people hard enough to cleave through them and HORRIBLE MURDER NIGHTMARES EVERYWHERE KILLING EVERYONE.

Noel is clearly unbiased and all these comments are correctly identifying him as an impartial, unemotional, and omniscient observer. He certainly has no reason to draw comparisons that make Gazz uncomfortable.

I'm digging the discourse in the comments.

Gazz has a sword and plain-ass human adrenaline, Chernyl is a city-wiping biological weapon that can't control her own power. There is no comparison here, Noel.

And yes, if you attack someone on the streets, they're justified in using lethal force to defend themselves.

Everyone's comfortable dismissing Gazz as a region-threatening catastrophe as if he's always going to stay at his current power level. He's, what, fifteen? Think about how much damage Moe managed to do when he first "awole"--and if the Baron hadn't showed up and guessed Moe's weakness, who knows how far things could have gone?

Are we sure Chernyl is not controlling her power? I take a feeling that Noel knows she does in fact have control, and yet we were mislead into thinking otherwise.

The main fact to the contrary I remember that the high nightmares were fighting for control over her body, but it could imply she is in some kind of a hostage situation.

No time to review all the previous pages to verify that claim right now, but I found that thought to be interesting to share anyways.

Following up on the idea from my previous post: There was a lot of speculation from Veda when talking to Malhart about Chernyl being a deadly magic user and empire wanting to control her. A suggestion that she might be a young magic user that do not control her power, but Veda was so wrong in other speculations, that this one can be false too.

Good point about Gaston's power level, but "oops I lost control and almost killed the guys attacking me and also mylelf" and "oops I lost control and now a small city is a reality warped hellscape" are not really quite comparable, Noel, buddy, no.

@Gobo
No, everybody is comfortable dismissing him as the same level of threat as Chernyl because of how different the nature of their powers is. Chernyl's powers are self-aware and actively seeking to cause harm independent of Chernyl.

Gazz was mainly harming himself, has improved his control since, and his powers don't do much of anything if he isn't using them.

@Zyzyzyryxy
If she was in control, her powers wouldn't manifest as multiple beings with mutually exclusive agendas who are actively fighting over control of her.